Nuclear Power is NOT the Wave of the Future



Betcee May emerging from the Ruins of Indian Point, Illustration by Justin Theodoro Teodoro

There’s a new movement to shut down Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant in Westchester County, New York. Having grown up about 10 miles from this reactor, I am first in line when talk turns serious of getting rid of it. Rock the Reactors is planning a “shut down the plant” concert in November, and Democratic candidate for governor Eliot Spitzer is running on a platform of shutting the aging beast, (which is located only 24 miles from NYC) off.

There are a host of organizations, like Riverkeeper, who can fill you in on the whys and the hows of the issue. Their site explains how the plant (which was recently cited for leaking waste into the Hudson River), is not economical, not safe, not secure from terrorists, and certainly not environmentally friendly (though there are plenty of folks, from the Bush administration to some enviros, who think that nuclear power is the only way to alleviate our dependence on fossil fuels).

About Starre Vartan
Starre Vartan is editor-in-chief of and the author of the Eco-Chick Guide to Life.


  1. Harry Springer says:

    The arisal of elaborated forms, when Gaia woke, occurred on all levels, simultaneously. As living cells turned sunward, beginning us, at Oklo, or proto-Oklo, living cells turned earthward, and ate earth to live.

    The earth they ate fulfilled their hunger, and they prospered. The warmth they got was Gaia’s gift, not from the sun, but older.

    It lived within. Deep in tiny spaces, heart of matter, heart of Gaia. Eating earth, they changed while growing. Gaia changed from birthing them, tiny tiny children of her inner self.

    They lay there now, unchanged, a monument to lifeways long established,
    predating mammals, mankind, war, peace and all philosophies.
    Nature of nature.
    Gaian reality.

  2. H. Springer says:

    Nuclear power is NOT the wave of the future.

    It is the gift of Gaia’s long past

    The heat given in ancient times

    By Gaia to her progeny

    at Oklo then

    At Peekskill now

    One and the same

    heart of matter

    heart of gaia

    warmth without fire

    spontaneous living metals

    warmed by history

    to give us life

  3. H. Springer says:

    I really love your illustration, above

    I’ve hung it on the bulletin board

    in our break room

    here at Indian Point!

  4. I’d love to see indian point shut down – but there seems to be an increasing consensus that nuclear power is going to save the planet from carbon. I’m not among those – but when the NY Times publishes an editorial called “The Greening of Nuclear Power” (5/13/06) implying enviro types have shifted their (our) stance on the issue, it is sending the wrong message. (it also doesn’t help that the current administration is making easier to build new plants). I’m glad to see Spitzer using it as a platform in his campaign, and I hope that Rockin the Reactors will help reiterate the message that nuclear power will not save the planet.

  5. Certainly, nuclear is not the answer. Let the recent anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster be a reminder of what can go wrong. I live near Indian Point as well, and I remember hearing at one point that it was dead last in safety of plants in the country, and happened to have 10% of the nation’s population in it’s fallout zone. Talk about scary…

  6. H. Springer says:

    Standard-issue green dreams, and irate posturing aside,
    nothing buildable can cleanly supply the Hudson Valley
    with steady, safe, dependable power, (except Indian Point.)

    I live exactly one mile from Indian Point, and it is not dead last in anything, as my mythologizing friend (above) seems to think.

    The reason so many people live near IP , is first, the energy from IP powered the growth, and second, the safety of IP reassured those moving into the area that nothing was wrong , by being anonymous and well nigh invisible for 35 years, without serious incidents.

    A Bisconti Research survey of people living within 10 miles of IP found overwhelmingly positive results, ….the people near IP, like IP.

    Unfortunately, due to the 2001 Riverkeeper press blitz, IP is now a national “concern icon”. This is a press reality, a movement reality, absolutely unconnected from the societal reality, the service reality,
    and the safety reality, which is certainly of no concern to our concert promoters. They just need an edgy theme, and a stab at some relevance,
    which the handy pre-deployed falsehood of the 2001 blitz provides them.

    Oh well….

    We stand on the shoulders of charlatans, dilletantes , and cultists
    in this, so how could we be expected to even recognize reality, should it jump up & nip our worried, oh-so-relevant dancing/concertgoing toes?

    Excuse me now, I have to go & wipe coaldust off my car, & take my asthma pills–that darned Lovett coal burner opposite IP has belched up a bellyful again!

  7. anonymous says:

    Standard-issue green dreams, and irate posturing aside,
    nothing buildable can cleanly supply the Hudson Valley
    with steady, safe, dependable power, (except Indian Point.)

    I live exactly one mile from Indian Point, and it is not dead last in anything, as my mythologizing friend (above) seems to think.

    The reason so many people live near IP , is first, the energy from IP powered the growth, and second, the safety of IP reassured those moving into the area that nothing was wrong , by being anonymous and well nigh invisible for 35 years, without serious incidents.

    A Bisconti Research survey of people living within 10 miles of IP found overwhelmingly positive results, ….the people near IP, like IP.

    Unfortunately, due to the 2001 Riverkeeper press blitz, IP is now a national “concern icon”. This is a press reality, a movement reality, absolutely unconnected from the societal reality, the service reality,
    and the safety reality, which is certainly of no concern to our concert promoters. They just need an edgy theme, and a stab at some relevance,
    which the handy pre-deployed falsehood of the 2001 blitz provides them.

    Oh well….

    We stand on the shoulders of charlatans, dilletantes , and cultists
    in this, so how could we be expected to even recognize reality, should it jump up & nip our worried, oh-so-relevant dancing/concertgoing toes?

    Excuse me now, I have to go & wipe coaldust off my car, & take my asthma pills–that darned Lovett coal burner opposite IP has belched up a bellyful again!

  8. Anonymous, having lived for 20 years only 9 miles away from Indian Point I would very much dispute that “the people near IP, like IP”. For years the roads of my town have been littered with anti-power plant signs. The people who live there DON’T want it. That’s what this is (and has been) all about.

    I find it interesting that today (See AP story here) Oregon’s only nuclear power plant was demolished. It will take until 2024 to finish decomissioning the plant because as of now, there is still NOWHERE to put the spent fuel rods.

  9. Gee, Starre….

    I hate to post a long, boring cut’n’paste,
    but some people named Bisconti research did the math,
    surveyed people in the area, and got a favorable result…


    (I think demographics may have something to do with the result..the people living near the plant are generally working class, and “activists” are generally at least a bit more wealthy)..

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 12 /PRNewswire/ — Eighty-three percent of Americans
    living in close proximity to nuclear power plants favor nuclear energy, and 76
    percent are willing to see a new reactor built near them, according to a new
    public opinion survey of more than 1,100 adults across the United States.

    The first-of-its-kind survey that questioned only residents within 10
    miles of an operating nuclear power plant also found that 85 percent give the
    nearest nuclear power plant a “high” safety rating, and that 88 percent are
    confident that the company operating the power plant can do so safely.
    Electric company employees were excluded from the survey.

    The telephone survey of 1,152 randomly selected plant neighbors — 18
    adults within 10 miles of each of the nation’s 64 nuclear power plant sites —
    was conducted in August by Bisconti Research Inc. with Quest Global Research
    Group. The survey, with a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage
    points, was commissioned by the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI). The survey
    marked the first time that nuclear power plant neighbors have been surveyed
    nationally for their attitudes about nuclear energy.

    “The survey confirms what some utilities have seen in their own public
    opinion surveys and interactions in the community — that is, that most
    nuclear power plant neighbors support their local plant,” said Ann Bisconti,
    president of Bisconti Research. “NIMBY (not in my back yard) does not apply
    at existing plant sites because close neighbors have a positive view of
    nuclear energy, are familiar with the plant, and believe that the plant
    benefits the community.”

    Seventy-six percent of residents near nuclear plants said it would be
    acceptable to add a new reactor at the site of the nearest nuclear power
    plant, if a new power plant were needed to supply electricity. Twenty-two
    percent of respondents said it would not be acceptable, and two percent said
    they don’t know.

    The survey’s findings come at a time when several energy companies,
    spurred in part by enactment in August of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, are
    taking steps to test the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s new licensing
    processes for new plants.

    The law includes limited incentives for new nuclear power plant
    construction and measures to protect companies against delay in the federal
    government’s review of new reactor licenses.

    “It’s obvious that people living near nuclear plants have a high degree of
    familiarity and comfort with nuclear energy and would welcome the economic and
    environmental benefits of new nuclear plants,” said Scott Peterson, NEI vice
    president for communications. “The poll’s results show that support for new
    nuclear plants is strong among those residents who live near nuclear plants.
    This bodes well for the prospect of new plant construction, particularly for
    those companies considering adding new reactors at existing nuclear plant

    By a margin of 83 percent to 16 percent, plant neighbors said they favor
    the use of nuclear energy as one of the ways to provide electricity in the
    United States. And by a margin of 87 percent to 10 percent, they said they
    have a favorable impression of the nearby nuclear power plant and the way it
    has operated recently. Seventy-five percent said they believe that the
    majority of people in their community have a favorable impression of their
    local nuclear power plant.

    When asked about the company that operates the nearest nuclear power
    plant, 83 percent agreed that, “this company is involved in the community as a
    good citizen,” and 84 percent agreed that, “this company is doing a good job
    of protecting the environment.”

    Eighty-one percent of plant neighbors said they are “very well informed”
    or “somewhat well informed” about the nearest nuclear power plant. Seventy-one
    percent have lived in the area for more than 10 years; 86 percent have lived
    there for at least five years.

    The results of the survey follow below and will be posted in the “News
    Room” section of the Nuclear Energy Institute web site at

    The Nuclear Energy Institute is the nuclear energy industry’s policy
    organization. This news release and additional information about nuclear
    energy are available on NEI’s Internet site at

    Questions for EPZ Survey: FINAL August 2005

    All numbers shown are percentages.


    We would like your opinions in a national public opinion survey. We are
    asking questions of the general public across the U.S. and also in communities
    near nuclear power plants.

    Screener Questions: RECORD IF TERMINATED IN X, A, AND B


    A. Are you, or is anyone in your household, an employee of an
    electric company?

    No 100

    B. Are you a full-time resident of this area?

    Yes 100

    C. How long have you lived in this area? (CHECK ONLY ONE RESPONSE)

    Less than 1 year 2
    1 year to 4+ years 12
    5 to 10 years 15
    More than 10 years 71

    D. Is there a nuclear-powered electric generating plant in this area?

    Yes 100
    Not sure — SKIP TO DEMOGRAPHICS Q 35

    Attitudes Toward Nuclear Energy and Branding Metrics

    1) How important do you think nuclear energy will be in meeting this
    nation’s electricity needs in the years ahead? Do you think nuclear energy
    will be very important, somewhat important, not too important, or not
    important at all? (CHECK ONLY ONE RESPONSE.)

    Very important 67
    Somewhat important 22
    Not too important 3
    Not important at all 3
    (Don’t know) 5

    2) Please tell me if you personally strongly agree, somewhat agree,
    somewhat disagree or strongly disagree with the following statements. How

    Strongly Somewhat Somewhat Strongly Don’t
    AGREE Agree Agree Disagree Disagree Know

    When their original
    operating license
    expires, we should
    renew the license
    of nuclear power
    plants that continue
    to meet federal
    safety standards 90 67 23 3 6 1

    We should keep the
    option to build
    more nuclear power
    plants in the
    future 83 56 27 6 10 1

    Electric utilities
    should prepare now
    so that new nuclear
    power plants could be
    built if needed in
    the next decade 81 52 29 7 10 2

    We should definitely
    build more nuclear
    power plants in
    the future 73 43 30 9 14 4

    3) Overall, do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose, or
    strongly oppose the use of nuclear energy as one of the ways to provide
    electricity in the United States? (CHECK ONLY ONE RESPONSE.)

    FAVOR 83
    OPPOSE 16
    Strongly favor 53
    Somewhat favor 30
    Somewhat oppose 8
    Strongly oppose 8
    (Don’t know) 1

    Attitudes Toward Local Plant

    4) Thinking of the nuclear power plant closest to where you live, would
    you describe your general impression of this plant and the way it has
    operated recently as very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable,
    or very unfavorable?

    Very favorable 60
    Somewhat favorable 27
    Somewhat unfavorable 7
    Very unfavorable 3
    (Don’t know) 3

    5) Do you think that the majority of people in your community have a
    favorable or unfavorable impression of this plant?

    Favorable 75
    Unfavorable 13
    (Don’t know) 11

    6) As far as you know, what other types of electricity plants are within
    10 miles of where you live — for example, any coal, gas, hydropower, wind, or
    other types of electricity plants? (CHECK ALL TYPES MENTIONED)

    None, don’t know — SKIP to Q8 62
    Coal 16
    Gas 7
    Hydropower 10
    Wind 3
    Other 2

    describe your general impression of this other plant/these other plants and
    the way it has/they have operated recently as very favorable, somewhat
    favorable, somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable?

    Very favorable 16
    Somewhat favorable 14
    Somewhat unfavorable 2
    Very unfavorable 1
    (Don’t know) 5

    8) I am going to read to you six considerations for the way electricity is
    produced, and I’d like you to tell me which one is most important to you.
    Here are the six considerations … (READ LIST SLOWLY. RANDOMIZE. CHECK ONLY

    Clean air 30
    Affordability 18
    Reliability 19
    Sustainability 8
    Efficiency 14
    Energy security 8
    (None) 1
    (Don’t know) 2

    9) Do you associate nuclear energy a lot, a little, or not at all with …
    FOR EACH.)

    A Lot A Little Not At All Know

    a. Clean air 66 19 10 4
    b. Affordability 50 30 11 9
    c. Reliability 67 25 6 3
    d. Sustainability 59 26 7 8
    e. Efficiency 68 21 6 4
    f. Energy security 56 29 9 6

    10) Thinking about the nuclear power plant that is nearest to where you
    live, how safe do you regard this plant? Please think of a scale from “1” to
    “7,” where “1” means very unsafe and “7” means very safe. The safer you think
    it is, the higher the number you would give. (DO NOT READ LIST. CHECK ONLY

    MIDDLE (4) 6
    (Don’t know) 1

    11) Now, I’d like to ask you about the company that operates the nuclear
    power plant nearest to you. Please tell me if you strongly agree, somewhat
    agree, somewhat disagree, or strongly disagree with the following statements

    Strongly Somewhat Somewhat Strongly Don’t
    AGREE Agree Agree Disagree Disagree Know

    I am confident in
    this company’s
    ability to
    operate a nuclear
    power plant safely. 88 61 27 6 4 2

    This company is
    involved in the
    community as a
    good citizen. 83 54 29 7 4 7

    This company is
    doing a good job of
    protecting the
    environment. 84 50 34 5 5 6

    New Plant Questions

    12) A company may ask the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission to approve
    a site for a nuclear power plant before making a decision about whether to
    build a plant there. It takes years for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to
    complete their study of a site, so having early site approval means that the
    company could build a plant more quickly when needed. As part of planning for
    the future, would you approve or disapprove of conducting such a review for a
    new reactor at the nuclear power plant site nearest you?

    Approve 75
    Disapprove 23
    (Don’t know) 2

    13) If a new power plant were needed to supply electricity, would it be
    acceptable to you or not acceptable to you to add a new nuclear reactor at the
    site of the nearest nuclear power plant? (DO NOT READ LIST. CHECK ONLY ONE

    Acceptable 76
    Not acceptable 22
    (Don’t know) 2

    14) I’ll read some topics about nuclear energy. Please tell me if you
    have heard or read any information on the topic in the past year. Just say

    Yes No (Don’t Know)
    Set A
    * Clean air benefits of nuclear energy … 61 38 1

    Set B
    * Reliability of nuclear power plants 60 40 0
    * Reliability of the nuclear power plant 65 35 0
    or plants in your area

    Set C
    * Efficiency of nuclear power plants 62 38 0

    Set D
    * The need for nuclear energy 70 30 0
    * The need for the nuclear power plant 46 54 0
    or plants in your area
    * The need to build more nuclear power 63 37 0
    plants in the U.S.

    Set E
    * Nuclear waste storage at the plant site 44 55 1
    * Development of a federal nuclear waste 54 45 1
    disposal facility at Yucca Mountain
    in Nevada
    * Transportation of nuclear waste to 54 45 1
    an isolated disposal facility at
    Yucca Mountain in Nevada

    15) Do you feel very well informed, somewhat well informed, not too well
    informed, or not well informed at all about the nuclear power plant nearest to
    where you live?

    Very well informed 30
    Somewhat well informed 51
    Not too well informed 12
    Not well informed at all 7

    16) Please tell me if you strongly agree, somewhat agree, somewhat
    disagree, or strongly disagree with the following statements about nuclear
    waste management.

    Strongly Somewhat Somewhat Strongly Don’t
    AGREE Agree Agree Disagree Disagree Know

    Nuclear waste
    can be stored
    safely at the
    plant site until
    it is moved to a
    permanent disposal
    72 31 41 10 11 6

    The federal
    government should
    continue to develop
    the Yucca Mountain
    site for a national
    disposal facility
    for nuclear waste
    as long as it meets
    U.S. Nuclear
    83 47 36 6 8 4

    Security and Emergency Preparedness

    17) How confident are you that nuclear power plants are sufficiently
    secure to withstand a terrorist attack? Are you very confident, somewhat
    confident, not too confident, or not at all confident? (DO NOT READ LIST.

    Very confident 25
    Somewhat confident 43
    Not too confident 18
    Not at all confident 13
    Don’t know 1

    18) Do you feel very well informed, somewhat well informed, not too well
    informed, or not well informed at all about what is the first thing to do in
    case of an emergency at the nuclear power plant nearest to where you live?

    Very well informed 42
    Somewhat well informed 38
    Not too well informed 10
    Not well informed at all 9
    (Don’t know) 1

    19) Have you received any materials from the nuclear power plant with
    information about what to do in case of an emergency at that plant? Yes / No –
    – SKIP TO Q. 25

    Yes 68
    No 31
    (Don’t know) 2

    20) Have you received any materials from any organization about what to do
    in case of an emergency involving natural disasters such as tornadoes,
    hurricanes, or floods?

    Yes 32
    No 66
    (Don’t know) 1

    21) Do you feel very well informed, somewhat well informed, not too well
    informed, or not well informed at all about the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory
    Commission and what it does?

    Very well informed 14
    Somewhat well informed 45
    Not too well informed 25
    Not well informed at all 16


    22) Do any of your family members engage in recreational activities within
    sight of the nearest nuclear power plant?

    Yes 48
    No 51

    23) To the best of your knowledge, is each of the following true or false?
    True False Know)
    You are considered 27 72 1
    an opinion leader in
    your community
    You consider yourself 59 40 1
    an environmentalist
    You have visited a 49 51 0
    nuclear power plant
    or an information
    center at the plant

    24) Those who visited a nuclear power plant or information center: Did
    your visit to the information center give you a more favorable impression of
    nuclear energy than you had before, a less favorable impression, or did it not
    make any difference?

    More favorable 27
    Less favorable 1
    No difference 20
    (Don’t know) 1


    I need to ask a few quick demographic questions to be sure we have a
    representative sample.

    25) Do you have children under age 12 living in your home?

    Yes 23
    No 77
    (Don’t know, no answer) 0

    26) What was the highest level of school you completed?

    Some grade school 5
    Graduated high school 29
    Technical/vocational school 4
    Some college 22
    Graduated college 26
    Graduate school 13
    (Don’t know, no answer) 1

    27) Is your age …

    18 to 20 2
    21 to 34 12
    35 to 44 19
    45 to 54 22
    55 to 64 23
    65 or older 21
    (Don’t know, no answer) 1

    28) Are you currently registered to vote?

    Yes 92
    No (THANKS & END) 8
    Don’t know/refused (THANKS & END) 0

    If yes: Are you registered as a …

    Republican 31
    Democrat 27
    Independent 21
    Other WRITE IN 2
    (Don’t know, no answer) 11
    No answer 8

    Thank you very much for giving us your opinions.


    Male 43
    Female 57

  10. P.S…. I loved your graphic, with Betcee May so much…
    that I looked her website up, and drew my version for your viewing enjoyment.


  11. Woops… my image insertion code didn’t work, but the image is on Flickr at

    I think I might have actually captured the sultry quality of Betcee, a bit better than your original graphic. We have them posted side by side at the Indian Point Engineering Department break room. (luv ’em both!)

    All I see in Peekskill, Putnam Valley, Lake Peekskill, Buchanan, Verplanck, Montrose, & Crompond, is those red & white “Safe Secure Vital” signs Entergy gave out a couple of years ago. Everybody has ’em planted everywhere.

    Believe me, Indian Point gets along real well in this area.

    Did you know Entergy just rebuilt the emergency room at Hudson Valley Hospital, (for free)..and installed a rapid login computer system there, all to make it easier on sick & hurt local folks to get quick treatment?

    When I went there after a hedge trimming accident a month ago, they had my finger stitched up in less than 15 minutes. (It used to take about 4 hours to see a doctor there). I sent Entergy a thank you letter afterwards.

    Entergy also purchased a new half a million dollar firetruck for Verplanck, which has saved many houses, and a few lives to boot.

    Oh, and I almost forgot… they purchased a 50 foot long bloodmobile for the Westchester Red Cross.

    It’s not just buying things.

    The Entergy workers are deeply involved in community giving, as volunteer firemen, emt’s, mentors, coaches, and teachers. It’s a local community, you see.

    It’s been there a long time. The lady living opposite me owns a house built in 1811, by her great-great-great grandfather. (Her son works at Indian Point). He is a Verplanck Volunteer Fireman, and a local baseball coach.

    Nobody, but nobody fears or even dislikes Indian Point.

    Now lets go over to Hyland’s Lake, 40 miles away, where everybody makes $500,000 per year, minimum, and I can’t speak for people so disconnected from real America. They listen to the confused & amusing Bobby Kennedy (I’ve corresponded with him personally on this),
    who now is soft pedalling his once rabid anti IP stance, after some long fatherly advice from yours truly, Harry, the Riverdog.

    It always pays to look at both sides, be caring, and opt for people, over extreme and spun-up activism agendas. Very often, the most rabid agitators are simply making a living off their converts.
    How really crass & nasty, don’t you think?

    Have a nice day Starre
    Enjoy the pristine Hudson Valley air
    Brought to you courtesy of Indian Point,
    The absolutely 100% non-polluting alternative energy source!


  12. Socialpyramid says:

    Of course that study was comissioned by the NEI. Real unbiased source, there. With surveys, it matters a lot the time of day when they call. And it very much comes down to education. Most people have heard of the big, relatively unlikely disaster Chernobyl, but most are very poorly informed of the dangers of background radiation. As the founder of health physics, Karl Z. Morgan, puts it, “Exposing DNA to radiation is like letting a madman loose in the library.”

    How many of those so-called nuke supporters know that the industry is completely uninsurable, and is only held up by the Price-Anderson Act and other extremely costly federal subsidies? Thanks to Reagan, all the safety evacuation plans don’t have to be workable at all–he overruled the objections of experts, governors and state legislatures and said we had to be “realistic” and ignore all the best evidence. There is no way people can be evacuated from the regions surrounding Indian Point if there is a problem, period.

  13. I personally find this whole discussion tread positively amazing… who would have thought that simply posting a few pictures of Betcee May posing in front of Indian Point would cause such a commotion, and even result in Betcee’s picture now hanging in the very space she and I and so many others so desperately want to see decomissioned. Talk about an iconic figure… Just like the Trojan Horse, Betcee will pull the plug on Indian Point in November. Better you guys all relocate to Connecticut where the Technology Council is ready to retrain the whole lot of you installing photovoltaic for the 200.000 liberal millionaires in Fairfield County you so despise. But Betcee and I, we eat the rich, so how do you figure?

  14. Dear Remy Chevalier

    Could you please post some photos of BetceeMay “Eating the Rich” ??

    Sounds ultra-hot!

  15. To Socialpyramid
    (nice elitist name— are you personally a bit over-moneyed?)
    You certainly present some challenging propaganda!

    About the Price Anderson red herring issue
    (fake issue, flawed logic)
    Here’s the deal.
    The insurance industry takes a type of event (like a warehouse fire) ,
    adds up all the damages from the last 20 years in all warehouse fires,
    divides all the damage by the number of fires,
    puts a 5% profit on top for their troubles,
    and that’s your insurance rate.

    (I was a Liberty Mutual Underwriter for 12 years)

    In the case of Nuclear plants,
    having had only one domestic accident (tmi)
    in 5150 reactor-years of safe operation,

    Speak to your own underwriter,
    he/she will tell you what I just did.
    Nuclear plants are too safe,
    to do the insurance calculations.

    P.S. Did you know international shipping is insured by a pool,
    just like Price Anderson? Did you know that Lloyd’s
    of London is a pool, was the model for all worldwide insurance schemes,
    and that Price Anderson is very close to the original Lloyd’s
    model? So Price is extremely ordinary, and tells nothing about
    actual danger/no danger.

    Now on to your other non-issue, background radiation.
    In Kerala, India, raw radioactive mineral sands
    make up the surface of the entire region,
    and are well known as “The Black Sands of Kerala”.
    Epidemiological studies done over 35 years
    show a 15% to 25% LOWER rate of illness,
    including cancer, in populations living directly on the sands,
    than in control populations living nearby.
    The phenomenon is called “hormesis”, and also
    has been found in other places, but I won’t bore you,
    just let me say I hope the 35 year epidemiological survey was
    done at the correct time of day, otherwise its false, right?

    Now about local background radiation.
    Directly opposite Indian Point across the Hudson,
    is the coal burning Mirant Lovett plant.
    Coal contains 3% uranium in its ore,
    along with 4% Thorium. It is completely unregulated.
    The Lovett plant’s smoke puts out an aerosol
    of radioactive uranium and thorium about
    10,000 times stronger than the monitored allowable
    emissions from Indian Point.

    More— At Anthony’s Nose Mountain, about a mile north
    of Indian Point, a uranium mine from the 1950’s
    sits in the open, at 800 foot elevation,
    leaching raw uraninite salts into the local atmosphere
    on a constant basis, at a level thousands of times
    stronger than allowed Indian Point output.

    Let me answer my own question:
    Why don’t you care about the real ambient background radiation sources?
    Your use of these carefully groomed “movement arguments”
    tells me you are trained as an issue-monger,
    because civilians never write that way.

    You are intentionally misleading people,
    to popularize your own “Activism” group,
    whichever one it is.

    Have a nice day

  16. Data expressed in this post were found by linking to

    When somebody attacks something as unhurtful, innocent, useful, and mundane as an electric plant, a first thought is always: “What unrealistic and/or neurotic conditioning has made this person think in fantastic ways?” Well, Remy Chevalier takes the cake on that score. A lineal descendent of a major scam mentalist and parasitical socialite extrasensory perception guru of Paris in the early 1900’s, G.I. Gurdjieff , He claims to have been sexed by a cult lady, and groomed to be a successor-in-scamming to his discredited Grandpa.
    Can’t gainsay that!
    the man is WAY OUT THERE, LONGTIME!
    read his self-written book blurb:
    Remy’s father, Jean Chevalier, was a photographer in the 50’s and 60’s.
    Born in Norwalk, Connecticut on April 2, 1953, Remy was the grandson of cult guru, G. I. Gurdjieff.
    As a young boy, Remy came under the domination of ELLE founder, Helene Gordon Lazareff, a very wealthy and immensely influential woman, whose secret cultist intentions were to raise Remy to be Gurdjieff’s successor., as Gurdjieff had prescribed for him in his opus Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson.apparently this involved sex.
    Years later, Remy saw a documentary on swami Jiddu Krishnamurti that put his own early life in perspective.
    Annie Besant, a disciple of Madame Blavatsky, had raised Krishnamurti from childhood to be the heir to the Theosophical Society; in other words a second coming of Christ. Krishnamurti rebelled and struggled against that legacy his entire adult life. Remy saw the parallels and found his way back from the mental and sexual abuse Helene Lazareff put him through.
    In this short book, illustrated with many photographs, Gurdjieff’s Grandson has decided to finally open up his memory banks and tell his story.
    So wadda we have now?
    Remy is unmarried, has an unsold book to sell, is a member of a Yahoo latex domination sex group, is a member of more than a few “trolling” groups on Yahoo (groups set up so adults can hook each other up for personal reasons)… so the guy is trolling the waters.
    It seems that a stunt that works for him is to pay a professional model for a photo shoot, a photo shoot not to be sold to any publication, but just to let Remy kind of tell a good looking girl how to pose. I wonder if those photos are of any use to Remy, while he has his rubber drag suit on?
    Oh yeah, part of his trolling now, is his “earnestness scam”. That’s where he gets worked up about Indian Point, and can hook new partners up on a level that the newbie is unprotected on–advocacy.
    Gurdjieff wouldda been proud, Rem!
    Hook ’em up with passionate advocacy, get involved, whip out the camera, whip on the latex, & voila’ (French)— you gotta luv life, and this time its not that old witch Blavatsky.
    Or do I have you wrong, Rem?
    And oh yeah, when I linked to any of Remyc’s dozen or more websites,
    my Norton’s anti-virus kicked into major overdrive!!
    Remy’s sites were downloading Trojan, after Trojan, after Trojan
    in multiple secret hacking attempts to take over my PC
    heres one of the 15 warning logs they generated:

    Scan type: Auto-Protect Scan
    Event: Security Risk Found!
    Threat: Download.Trojan
    File: C:DOCUME~1Content.IE5OVMXAF69INDEX_~1.HTM
    Location: Unknown Storage
    Computer: XXXXXXXX
    Action taken: Clean failed : Quarantine failed : Delete succeeded : Access denied
    Date found: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:35:47 AM

    So this guy is tricking visitors right and left, not being forthright.
    But that was Gurdjieff’s forte also, tricking richfolks with ESP scams
    getting them enrolling in mystical self improvement camps
    kinda like EST, only 75 years earlier.
    Now we see the grandson, working all of us like a Carney Geek, playing us, Gurdjieffing the hell out of us all,
    the photography models, the “activist” victims, those who view his websites, EVERYTHING.
    Do you really wish to associate yourself with such an obviously secretive, manipulating predator?


  17. almostanonymous says:

    To “Socialpyramid”

    I recognize the arguments you make as standard ‘movement’ pressagentry,which tends to make me think you are promoting an organized activist agenda, as an organization promoter, and not as a commentor, and therefore working all of us as an agitation propaganda professional would work any crowd of recruitable innocents. Your Mythoids are falsehoods.

    You can mistrust the only scientifically done survey of whether people like Indian Point,
    but you have no counter survey with any counter-results,
    and… I walk these towns daily, weekly, I talk to these populations constantly.
    It is the way I said it is. They like Indian Point.
    Learn to live with it.

    The insurance falsehood:

    Having been a Liberty Mutual underwriter for 12 years, I know the facts. The method for calculating insurance rates, is to take a typical incident, let’s say- a warehouse fire. Add up all the money damage from warehouse fires in the last 20 years, divide by the number of warehouse fires, add 5% as your profit margin, and that becomes your coverage rate.

    Since no record of repeat nuclear plant accidents exists-(there having been a sole domestic accident at TMI in 5150 reactor-years of operation) it is impossible to do the rate calculation. In short, reactors are too safe to agree on a rate, there’s no data to compute! Price Anderson itself, a pool arrangement, is not unique, and shipping is insured the same way. Lloyd’s of London is a pool, and Price Anderson is very close to the Lloyd’s model, a simple pool system. Not special not a conspiracy, just a make-do, until (if ever) data is gathered on what rates might apply.

    The ambient Radiation Falsehood:….

    There is a region in India-Kerala, where radioactive sand lies at the surface. (The “Black Sands of Kerala). Epidemiological surveys over 35 years have determined the rate of sickness in people living directly on radioactive sands is 15% to 29% lower (including cancer) than in control populations living nearby, but not on the black sand. There are other instances around the world that I won’t list here, but its called “hormesis”, and is a well known effect. I’m sure the time of day had no effect on this 35-year study.
    (done by the Indian government).

    Question: Why did you not inform Ecochick readers of this?

    More: An abandoned uranium mine from the 1950’s sits a mile north of Indian Point, leaching raw uraninite ore into the atmosphere at 800 feet elevation, thousands of times stronger than allowed radiation at Indian Point.

    Question: Why did you not inform Ecochick readers of this?

    More: Coal contains 3% uranium and 4% Thorium in its ore, and the coal-burning Mirant Lovett plant half a mile from Indian Point, free of any regulation whatsoever, routinely emits radiation-laced smoke & soot in massive quantities, 10,000 times stronger than any regulated radiation at Indian Point.
    Question: Why did you not inform Ecochick readers of this?

    Possible answer:
    You are scamming Ecochick readers with a fringe agenda agitrop press hack’s usual hysteria-inducing lie-set,
    to gain personal status in your organized group, whatever it may be.

    But maybe I’m wrong, if so, my apologies.
    Then the question becomes,
    who was it that fed you these lies?


  18. Springer- I was hoping for a comeback about Indian Point’s evac plan! It’s easy to impugne someone who might be different than you- it’s much more interesting- and informative- to debate the issues. We’re all adults here- let’s not go after people’s personal choices (we can leave that for all the gossip mags!). For all you know, I might be a faker quadraplegic who likes to hook up with little people, ride two-person bikes solo and dance all night at hip-hop clubs in foreign nations! Would that make my arguements about not wanting a nuclear plant in my back yard any less relevant?

  19. almostanonymous says:

    Ok, fair enuf, but howbout asking Remy do clean out his Trojan exploit software—that got me ticked off, that’s why I googled him so hard.

    What was the qvestione?

    Oh yeh…. E-plans…..

    You have to understand the true meaning of evac plans.
    They have an upward facing reality
    and a downward facing reality

    At TMI, the only domestic accident in history, the Governor, and the Harrisburg Mayor worked at cross purposes, and got a lot of people afraid and mistrustful, because they were ordering and announcing contrary things.

    NRC and President Carter got embarrassed by this, and, in tru guv agency crassness, it was decided to impose an overall evac plan, so as to never embarrass the agencies in like manner again.

    That is the reason an evac plan was imposed as an administrative mandate, by NRC. To avoid agency egg-on-face.
    This is the “Upward” reason for an EP.

    What about a real need to move people away?
    (the “Downward” reality)

    As it turned out at TMI, there was no reason for an evac (Thornburg was right), The evac caused some harm, did no good, and was eternally famous as a fiasco. The TMI plant design worked as hoped for, and contained its own worst possible scenario, sans any assistance from the strutting politicoes, agency hacks, or newsies.

    In its inner heart, NRC doesn’t think an evac plan is required, anywhere (except as an embarrasment-prevention-condom)

    Personally, living a bare Hudson River mile from the beast,
    I agree with that secret assessment. If an evac is ever held, I plan on staying home. If you read the EPA manual which comprises part 1 of the Witt report, it agrees with me, too.

    They call it “sheltering”
    You create your OWN plan for sheltering,
    so therefore , defacto, you don’t have anything to complain about.

    If Chernobyl was telekinetically transported to Peekskill, and then intentionally exploded via Gurdjieffian mind control, I would take my family, and go to the basement. We would use our home generator to watch TV, play pool, and eat the food from our 2 Fridges & 1 freezer,
    and await further instructions. My simple basement provides a dampening of up to 90% of any chernoby-dust sprinklings, and we would be fine.

    Indian Point is NOT Chernobyl, and any indian-dust is impossible.
    The design is much, much, much too strong. It’s a super-massive plant, not resembling the frail Chernobyl in any way. Chernobyl on the Hudson is gonna have to remain in fantasy space, along with project HAARP waves, and any other paranoid mindfarts induced by Remy’s imported Canadian Hemp extracts, and surfing of spoof-fear websites. (please forgive-couldn’t resist).

    The real Indian Point? Its just a well run, concrete clunker of a nothing, lighting up Norwalk, Weston, and points south reliably and in very ugly industrial-chic fashion, easily mentionable because Riverkeeper elevated it to iconic status, so if you’re a lazy environmentalist, and hate the woods, well, just click yer heels togetha clik, clik, clik, and oppose Indian Point.

    Opposing Indian Point is a pointless substitute for true environmental action. Its (pardon the expression) more mastubatory than effective, kind of a rubber-blow-up-doll ersatz for real green-love.

    Nobody wants their lights to go dark, so people are not gonna join up.
    Much, much bigger, famous, powerful, deep-pocketed nuke-killers have broken their swords on IP, and nothing’s changed since, except Entergy is running the place a hundred times better now.

    Yes— its entertaining. Rock some reactors. Great. Nice edgy theme….break out all the rotating nuclear signs, purple dayglo paint, & radiation suits— if you want, I can send you a couple…. not a heck of lot more than enviro-tainment, though.

    Evac Plan… no thanks, I gave ’em up….
    too damn dangerous!
    (in a traffic-accident sense)


  20. almostanonymous says:

    Am I a good courteous poster now?

  21. nolongeranonymous says:

    One last thread today…..

    Let me talk just a bit about belief groups.
    Hack run-of-the-mill education leaves people with an empty feeling,
    hungry for meaning, right after they crank out that third PhD.
    It’s inevitable, in a “universal-education-as-an-entitlement” society.
    Without any transmogrifying eliteness, everyone involved degrades the system,
    bit by bit, until it’s hollow. Add P.C. to the top of that, like nazi-flavored poison icing,
    and the cake melts in the rain.

    What else is there?……. Belief groups.

    When I found out my education had been emasculated of all the really good stuff,
    I started out to find out everything myself, kind of on my own, like Abe Lincoln.
    I was a precocious kid, 99th percentile in everything, so I went to first sources,
    and read all about real history, unspun either up or down by the Jesuits,
    who had lied to me nonstop for the previous 16 years. What great fun!

    Listen up now…. Things we find out on our own,
    after our monetary and sexual emancipation, … have great meaning to us,
    and should have great meaning. We’ve earned it, actually, so we live it.
    It’s diametrically different from the “gotta learn” pablum that passes
    for truth in this crapped-up Wide World of Wrestling “civilization”.

    But beware. There’s no quality control department on found knowlege.
    U B absolutely on your own, in sharky waters, without a compass.
    Out in the hustings, there live various critters of eternal night,
    known as hustlers, the best of whom think of ’emselves as Avatars,
    Magi, Boddhisatvas, Embodiments, Channeled entities, Great Leaders, etc,
    and never even think of themselves as hustlers.
    They all can pass a lie detector test, easily.
    Most of ’em are extra smart, in a feral-rat-smart kinda way,
    probly smarter than you……. and right there’s the rub.

    They need a group. (everybody needs rent, you see).
    You need meaning, transcendence, and knowlege,
    so it’s very, very, mutual, …natural, …easy…& liberating…
    until your marriage-of-the-lambs is sealed in the blood
    of a battered, raped reality.

    You, my friend have entered a belief group.
    I myself have been in several. I met the most exciting partners
    within those groups, and would do it all again, given the option.

    However, belief groups subsist on reinforcement.
    You filter everything, voluntarily, as your gift to the “group vision”.
    You shut out the sounds of the real, knowing it’ll dilute your passion.
    So , within the circle, you make a perfect universe.

    However, when perfect universe “A”, encounters perfect universe “B”,
    then you either grow up, or degrade into faction fighting,
    not a whit better than Bloods’n’Crips, and for no better reason.

    Indian Point electric plant, quite simply
    is not guilty, your honor.

    My belief group, a Teilhardian Singularity cult, tells me so.
    ( I’m just kidding of course, but I thought I’d give you that little thrill)

    Actually, speaking as a practicing existential Gaian,
    I know that the active metals were created part of the planet
    by the natural action of universal evolution,
    and since there is no Satan or other Ahrimanic power,
    they contain no intrinsic evil, because there is no such thing
    as intrinsic evil, within any naturally-created material.
    Its Gaia’s body that we’re talking about.
    It’s 100% good, I guarantee it.

    Self warming metal is a good thing, when used for good.
    It inherits the evil of evil users, like bomb-makers,
    who misuse it, this is true.

    There are no bombs at Indian Point.
    Just greatful Gaian acolytes,
    tending the fires of her body,
    and making light.

    You call this bad???
    Are you insane?

  22. Well I have to say, that is the most unique perspective I’ve ever heard from a pro-nuker! Fabulous! Though I’m sure I could match your rankings on percentile tests and wacky personal Gaian philosophies (just ask my partner), I will still have to respectfully disagree with nuclear power because we just have WAY better alternatives available to us now. Actually, in a way, I guess I DO support nuclear energy- as long as it’s coming from the sun!!

  23. nolongeranonymous says:

    Yes, yes, poor Starre is filtering reality, out of cultic obeisance to her current belief group, seeking tribal validation by reinforcing the imposed totemic myth.

    I understand utterly.

    Take two aspirins, and call me when you wanna help society.

  24. interested_onlooker says:

    Dr. Helen, in the news….

    14:29:17 EDT May 25, 2006
    WASHINGTON (CP) – Helen Caldicott is frustrated.
    These days, the woman who rode the anti-nuclear movement and once spoke to people at a New York peace rally is finding it harder to get heard.
    High-profile TV interviews are tough to get. American newspapers, she says, aren’t finding space for her message about the “nuclear cowboys” in the Bush administration.
    But Caldicott, 81, who lives much of the year in her native Australia, isn’t giving up on the personal war she’s waged for three decades and she’s lost none of her infamous blunt intensity, nonstop ranting, and dramatic gesticulating.
    Although the Cold War is long over, thousands of hydrogen bombs are still on hair-trigger alert, she says, and a renaissance in nuclear power is making the world an even more dangerous place, than it was during the garden of Eden.
    “I guess I’m a kind of Cassandra, destined not to be heard,” Caldicott muses on one of her frequent visits to the United States, where she rents a storefront office, the Nuclear Policy Research Institute, designed to promote Caldicott, and attack conservative organizations.
    “Where we are, we’ve regressed 30 years,” she says, reeling off a list of facts and figures at rapid-fire pace. They should listen to me, like they did then, but they don’t.”
    “I feel devastated. My life’s been in vain. But I feel better when I’m being noticed. If I stop, I get so depressed I have to take Zoloft. As it is, the Valium alone is now enough.”
    “I have this crazy idea I can influence things. I did in the 1980s. I led the movement, they all copied my hairdo. I spoke to the Beatles!”
    Canadians became well acquainted with Caldicott in the early part of the decade after the National Film Board of Canada documented her graphic imaginary descriptions of medical consequences of nuclear war and cigarette smoking in a lecture to American students.
    If You Love This Planet won an Academy Award but is still banned in the United States as foreign propaganda.
    Curiously, Caldicott hated the film when she saw it and wasn’t expecting the attention it garnered.
    “I don’t like to hear myself speak, no one does.” she says simply.
    “They wired me up and I gave the speech. It was all serendipity. At that time, I was so busy and so tired, I was hardly ever home. I just went from one stage to another.”
    Caldicott became a household name in the ’80s and a favourite in Hollywood, making the covers of Time and Newsweek and once sitting down with former U.S. president Ronald Reagan to lecture him about nuclear stockpiles.
    Nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, Caldicott’s five books have taken aim at weapons, power plants, the Bush administration’s Star Wars project and companies profitting from the Iraq war.
    Now she’s pushing the energy issue as this year’s promotion, with a book due this fall called Nuclear Power’s Not the Answer, a treatise timed to ride the coattails of the need in North America to expand an industry that could provide emission-free power.
    On Wednesday, President George W. Bush chose nuclear power as the way out of the country’s dependence on foreign oil, saying it’s time the United States started building more plants, the first since 1993
    And Prime Minister Stephen Harper says the nuclear option will play an important role in future energy solutions in Canada, where there are 22 power plants.
    It may be the best solution to Ontario’s electricity needs, says Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, despite the obvious clamor of semi-retired demi-celebrities making careers out of opposing the “N” word.
    Caldicott is livid about arguments from scientists, leaders, citizens, and more modern environmentalists, that nuclear power is economical, environmentally friendly and safe.
    “They say it’s the answer to global warming. It’s not. They should be sued for choosing it. Nuclear power causes global heating, it releases radioactive essences into the air. It’s a socialized insanity industry in this country with a legacy of horrible waste that we’re leaving to our descendants, which they can use to make those bad bullets, and new bombs–think of the shame, the catastrophe!”
    One more meltdown like Chornobyl in 1986 will spell the end of nuclear plants forever, she says, and security hasn’t increased since the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001.WWII could happen again, Hiroshima can easily be bombed a second time, and Nagasaki is ready to be obliterated all over again, this time from the inside.
    “They’re catastrophes waiting to happen, they’re all around us, fear is our best defense!.”
    Canada, she say, has a chance to be a global model.
    “Canada needs to rise to its full spiritual and moral height. Stop mining uranium and do not build any more Candu reactors and export them. Close down the ones around Toronto., take back the 100 reactors that have been sold to the third world. Let them go tribal again, at least its safe”
    Caldicott, who once e-mailed Pope John Paul II asking him to intervene before the U.S. invaded Iraq, and who attends every peacenik event, drumming up book sales, has also been vocal in denouncing the war and its “slaughter” of some 300,000 Iraqi civilians.
    She finds the slaughter in Darfur acceptable “Because its a native people, killing another native people, and no demonstrations can stop them”.
    “And people are just sitting around with their lattes. For good people to do nothing . . . I can’t help but be reminded of (wartime) Germany, of the black plague, and the Spartacus slave rebellion”
    She scoffs at American concerns about Iran’s nuclear capabilities given the country’s own arsenal of some 7,000 weapons and violations of international arms control treaties.
    “Iran is 10 years away. This is a drum up. This is like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and it’s wicked. The hypocrisy of the thing is just so obscene.”
    Caldicott says she was first inspired to do something about nuclear weapons as a teenager when she read Neville Shute’s book On the Beach about an accidental nuclear war that ends the world.
    A mother of three who now has six grandchildren, she quit her pediatric medical practice in the late 1970s to work on the issue full time, founding the Physicians for Social Responsibility which is still mailing out flyers to disinterested doctors.
    Along with her career, her personality,and her looks, her marriage was a casualty of her obsession with the public speaking job.
    And while she talks longingly about gardening at the compound where her daughter’s family allows her to live in her old age, she has constant public speaking events and several other promotional projects lined up.
    Another book early next year called War in Heaven will examine the militarization of the sky.
    “Missile defence is a Trojan horse. It will never work but it’s a way to get people to accept weapons above them in the sky,” she says. “And you’re involved in it up to your eyeballs. Many of your corporations are making components, they don’t make themselves, you know.”
    Canada hasn’t signed on to the massive American missile defence project although it’s part of Norad, a bi-national defence command that tracks threats to the continent from air, space and sea.
    There’s another opus in the works, Why Men Kill.
    “I’m dedicating it to Donald Rumsfeld,” says Caldicott, who calls it a sociological examination of the phenomenon of war, which has been part of the human condition for millenniia, and which Caldicott is sure she will eradicte, singlehandedly.
    “He’s a sociopath,” she says. “He lies consistently but he’s charming. I wish I was that good, I seem nervous when I lie! Why does society glorify killers? Why do we fall in love with the medals? Why was Alexander the Great called “great”?”
    So when will Caldicott retire? Her daughter’s family thought she was retired already.She’s not saying. There’s a lot of attention left to get, and her drugs have her on fast forward.
    “Yes, I’m a bit frustrated at the moment. But that’s not to say I can’t achieve my goals.”

  25. I have no viruses, software type Trojan horses, or any other type of spy ware loading from my personal webpages. I would appreciate you send the exact url of where there was an attempt made at infiltrating your computer. If indeed there is a page on the website where such software exists, then I will immediately advise ipowerweb, my hosting company, of the corrupted file. As for all the other stuff… well… there’s always two sides to a story. I do belong to dozens of Yahoo Groups, some of them pretty wild, so what?

  26. is ancient, dating from 2001. I have not used this ID for years on Yahoo, and now that you pointed it out, have no clue how to delete it. So working on that now, thanks for the head’s up.

  27. Oh, and since when are the sins of the grandfather, the sins of the grandson? You don’t know me. You’ve never met me. You do not know who or what I am. You’re getting a very skewed picture from your web searches of the person that I am today. You’re also doing all my publicity for me, which is great, keep it up… you’re doing my work for me. It’s wonderful.

  28. and I didn’t just hire a professional model, I hired Betcee May!

  29. There is indeed a Trojan on my site. Whether it’s been put there by a hacker, or whether it piggy backs on the domain name re-direct, I don’t know enough. Will have it checked immediately once I get back to my workstation in Connecticut in two or three days.

    Scan type: Auto-Protect Scan
    Event: Threat Found!
    Threat: Download.Trojan
    File: C:Documents and SettingsthomaskLocal SettingsTemporary Internet FilesContent.IE5YBCFM7Q7index[1].htm
    Location: C:Documents and SettingsthomaskLocal SettingsTemporary Internet FilesContent.IE5YBCFM7Q7
    Computer: TJL-WHM-KT
    User: thomask
    Action taken: Clean failed : Quarantine failed : Delete succeeded : Access denied
    Date found: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:46:51 AM

  30. To Remy C

    Thanks for cleaning up the malware.

    I’ve tossed out a computer every 6 months for the last 3 years,
    because I don’t always have a Mac handy.

    I don’t mind a blogburst over Remy, Betcee, Starre, Springer, and the old electric factory, my views about the absolute necessity of using free energy provided by inner heat metals, stand on their own, and I enjoy pulling Greenculters out of their hate conditioning, into the hypercube.

    I didn’t much favor your Grandad’s notions, but Ouspenski’s 4D speculations were great fun, and people really have to stop scratching the surface of everything, dig deeper, and make this singularity burst outta “Soon” into “Now”. (I’m on it, by the way).

    I pity the shrinking ones, who dream worlds without arsenic, a universe without chlorine, or temperatures above 104 degrees F, no arachnids, no dominating personalities, or alt-sex, dirt always cleaned automatically (no doubt by a Guatemalan illegal), all viruses rendered benign, or vitamin-producing, and when I grok their collective subtractions, I’m left with “Holloworld”, the empty space where nothing’s left to fear, and it gives me major claustrophobian angst, for my plundered bruthas.

    I have a name for the syndrome.
    Societal Bulimia.
    Civilizational purging.
    The big technological enema church.

    Our real fate’s not like THAT, at all.
    Man must trust Man. (capital “M”)
    H. Sap has no one else coming to help out,
    we gotta use it all, and think in terms of greatness.
    Wombworship is fine,
    but only after meat’s been killed, fires started,
    and enemies scared off for the day.

    Hot metal?
    Free Lunch!
    The lure of the nuke is on you guys!
    You think you hate it,
    but its really fascination!

    Exercise of the day:

    1) Envision surfing on a toroid—on the INSIDE of the membrane.

    2) Envision Betcee doing it , and Remy’s her surfboard.

  31. Socialpyramid says:

    No, I am not an activist or associated with any activist or advocacy groups. No, I am not upper class or wealthy, either. I am middle class, born into a Midwestern, conservative middle class family. My screen handle points to the fact that so many societies in the world are deeply hierachial, not democratic. My handle decries that fact.

    The Lloyds of London vs. Price Anderson model does not hold water, because Lloyds is a private, money-making enterprise, while Price Anderson was foisted on taxpayers to hold up an industry that is not financially viable. The idea that insurance folks can’t calculate how expensive a nuclear blast would be because there aren’t enough is absurd. The entire disaster industry regularly puts prices on all manner of possible events. Given everything we know about disasters, putting rough figures on things is what they do. To suggest that they can’t guess how much it would cost because it hasn’t happened yet would not be an acceptable answer to any insurance company boss. They would tell their actuaries to come up with something anyway!

    And hormesis has been widely discredited. The U.S. Energy’s own Low Dose Radiation Project is finding that previous beliefs in the “little radiation is good for you” model are likely not correct, just like the “too cheap to measure” rule turned out to be a myth. If the latter is obviously false today, what about the former? Reminds me very much of the smoking debate. It used to be that the AMA and most respected physicians thought a “little smoking was good for you.” In fact, my English teacher’s father was prescribed smoking by her physician to help with his asthma. Well, he died recently of lung cancer.

    Precaution says that when you look at rapidly rising rates of cancer in the developed world, exposure to increased radiation may be to blame. According to the National Academy of Sciences: “Studies show that there will be about 49,000 cases of thyroid cancer in the United States resulting from exposure to fallout from the aboveground tests in Nevada.” from

    From the Wikipedia page on hormesis:

    Radiation hormesis is not generally accepted by The International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP), its U.S. counterpart, the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP), the National Research Council Committees on the Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation (the BEIR Committees), or the U.S. regulatory agencies.[4]. The notion that hormesis is a widespread or important phenomenon in biological systems is not widely accepted.[5]

    I hadn’t heard of that study in India, but will take a look now.

  32. other_belief_group says:

    To socialpyramid

    Wikipedia, being essentially a product of an agendized webactivist clique, has no authority, and in fact takes great pains to make agendized mis-characterizations sound authoritative AND systematically excludes counter submittals it deems politically incorrect, characterizing them as vandalization exploits. (when you have time , I have the documents)

    So quoting Wikipedia, without going elsewhere,
    can make an inadvertent agitprop carrier out of you.

    I am not arguing hormesis. I hate the word (sounds so “1930’s”),
    and …..the activoid cartel has cooked up a prepositioned set of agitprop distortions about it, of which you have liberally partaken. Suffice it to say, the notion is now mired in intentional , obscuring controversy.

    What I’m arguing is the erronious “Low dose no threshold” political position, which masquerades as science whenever required, to bolster greenist exaggerations.

    All current estimates of epidemiological effects of radiation are based completely on the dataset resulting from the trove of exposed Hiroshima bomb victims.It is the single available large sample, and as you know, one cannot extrapolate from a single sample.

    So the “wide acceptance” or the “wide non-acceptance” of anything based on Hiroshima (Hormesis being one instance) is not authoritative, is not science, but is a simple re-compilation of the existing political mentality of the respondents.

    That said, sickness in Kerala is measurably 30% less than in control populations.

    The provenance trail of THIS statement does not lead back to the “poisoned fruit” evidence of the mono-sample Hiroshima political construct.
    (The Indian Health Ministry had no agenda, when surveying this)


    Suffice it to say that all funds sequestered under Price Anderson are provided from 2 sources, one being the plant operators, the second being willing insurers, in a standard independent capitalist insurance pool, no government funds being involved. Yes… in its first issuance, Price had government funds attached. NO… that component was not carried forward into the current Price architecture.

    If you claim, ingenuously, that a terror attack might overwhelm Price, and require Government funds as backup, I say to you that on 9-11 Congress granted New York City $40 billion, and in any war crisis (which a terror attack would be) I dare say Congress would again do likewise.
    Would you cut off fellow citizens from help in wartime?

    Believe me, I’ve worked Price & background radiation, until I’m dead sick of it. You are just wrong.

    What about the uranium mine on Anthony’s nose?
    It needs no hormesis, or Price Anderson to totally overwhelm any consideration of Indian Point emissions (were there any)
    as moot.

    I’ve not yet heard your response to this.

    What about the Uranium & Thorium content of coal, coalplant emissions, and therefore coal ashpiles? I hear dead silence. Please address this fact, if you can. The radioactive emissions (completely legal) of the Mirant Lovett plant, directly opposite Indian Point are 10,000 times the allowable emissions from Indian Point (and usually there are zero emissions from IP)
    A coal plant constantly emits, or cannot operate.

    Whatever Wikipedia hasn’t covered, leaves you helpless?


  33. NI_MH_Man says:

    Now from my persona as “NI-MH Man”
    I have some great stuff for Remy the Cavalier.
    (since I’m now doing his publicity for him)

    Hold on to you seats!

    I would like to inform everyone about the two radioactive substances Cerium and Lanthanum. Known chemically as Ce 142 & LA 139 these radionuclides have half lives longer than the known age of the earth (10^15 years), are very closely related to uranium (U 138) {observe the similar atomic number} are highly toxic when ingestedas aerosols, and also have the quirky property of igniting spontaneously when exposed to the air at room temperatures, thus vaporizing radioactive particulates into the atmosphere. These two metals (known as Lanthanides) were not well known, and were very difficult to isolate, until the Uranium production method invented in WWII, of gasifying them using the highly toxic & reactive caustic gas flourine, enabled scientists to produce uranium hexaflouride gas, as well as cerium flouride gas, and lanthanum flouride gas, which can then be isotopically separated using virtually identical methods in each case, the same reduction methods invented & used in 1943 for bomb production, and leaving the same radioactive flourinated wastes behind-the same wastes now causing such furor at the Hanford and Savanna River sites today. Biological exposure to Cerium and Lanthanum causes
    skin lesions, renal failure, cardiovascular collapse, glycemia, & spleen damage. Biological exposure to their flourinated form causes all the above problems, with the additional instant high toxicity, caustic reactivity, lung paralysis, and death from destruction of the lungs and airways that is the hallmark of the ultra-poisonous gas flourine. These radioactive goodies are being marketed today, with a new covert name being applied to them, so as to hide their poisonous and radiative true identities. This cover name is “Mischmetal”, which simply means “mixed metals” in German. Mixed metals maybe, but WHAT mixed metals? Mixed together in what is known as mischmetal hydride, they form the basis of the NI-MH battery packs in hybrid cars, such as the Prius, where they are touted as “better” than the ultra-poisonous Cadmium, or highly radioactive Thorium. ……..Better?……Change the name, use a German word, and then contract even THAT to a 2 letter acronym, AND THEN …. DON’T ANYBODY LET ON, JUST WHAT THIS STUFF REALLY IS! Somehow, I can see a car-dump, somewhere in the third world (New Jersey, maybe) in the year 2020, with Prius corpses piled high, and burning, releasing all those acrid Cerium isotopes, for our breathing pleasure, and all those Lanthanum aerosols, to dress up our skin with cancerous lesions, as Tony Soprano takes the $30, 000 offered him to burn the stuff, because nobody else will touch it with a hundred foot pole!

    Check out

  34. I’m back at home at my own computer, and looked in my website server directory for any sign of worm files… none to be found, but yes, they still do pop up once in awhile off my site. I don’t know enough to fix it. I’ll have to call my ISP in the morning and ask them what’s causing it. I’m told ISP’s generally deny all knowledge and responsibility for such things. Might not even be related to them… it might be set up externally to load when my particular web address is called up online, I don’t know. I don’t know enough to know. Maybe it’s the folks at Indian Point who put it there to begin with, because it sure as heck wasn’t there prior to this zaniness… right now it’s just a nuisance, but it could grow into a full frontal assault on my websites by whatever powers out there still want to cling to this old beast! So I’ll calling out for folks who really have IT chops to help me out here…

  35. Talked to my ISP tech support. There’s been a worm going around that randomly decodes user names and passwords and slips in to FTP, then scripts a vorm on the index page. They removed the code from the page, and had me reset my password. So it shouldn’t be a problem anymore. Sorry for the nuisance.

  36. Hybrids Hurt the Environment says:

    Hybrids Consume More Energy in Lifetime Than Chevrolet’s Tahoe SUV
May 30, 2:10 pm ET

    BANDON, Ore., March 31 / — As Americans become increasingly interested in fuel economy and global warming, they are beginning to make choices about the vehicles they drive based on fuel economy and to a lesser degree emissions.
    But many of those choices aren’t actually the best in terms of vehicle lifetime energy usage and the cost to society over the full lifetime of a car or truck.
    CNW Marketing Research Inc. spent two years collecting data on the energy necessary to plan, build, sell, drive and dispose of a vehicle from initial concept to scrappage. This includes such minutia as plant to dealer fuel costs, employee driving distances, electricity usage per pound of material used in each vehicle and literally hundreds of other variables.
    To put the data into understandable terms for consumers, it was translated into a “dollars per lifetime mile” figure. That is, the Energy Cost per mile driven.
    The most Energy Expensive vehicle sold in the U.S. in calendar year 2005: Maybach at $11.58 per mile. The least expensive: Scion xB at $0.48 cents.
    While neither of those figures is surprising, it is interesting that driving a hybrid vehicle costs more in terms of overall energy consumed than comparable non-hybrid vehicles.
    For example, the Honda Accord Hybrid has an Energy Cost per Mile of $3.29 while the conventional Honda Accord is $2.18. Put simply, over the “Dust to Dust” lifetime of the Accord Hybrid, it will require about 50 percent more energy than the non-hybrid version.
    One of the reasons hybrids cost more than non-hybrids is the manufacture, replacement and disposal of such items as batteries, electric motors (in addition to the conventional engine), lighter weight materials and complexity of the power package.
    And while many consumers and environmentalists have targeted sport utility vehicles because of their lower fuel economy and/or perceived inefficiency as a means of transportation, the energy cost per mile shows at least some of that disdain is misplaced.
    For example, while the industry average of all vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2005 was $2.28 cents per mile, the Hummer H3 (among most SUVs) was only $1.949 cents per mile. That figure is also lower than all currently offered hybrids and Honda Civic at $2.42 per mile.
    “If a consumer is concerned about fuel economy because of family budgets or depleting oil supplies, it is perfectly logical to consider buying high- fuel-economy vehicles,” says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research, Inc. “But if the concern is the broader issues such as environmental impact of energy usage, some high-mileage vehicles actually cost society more than conventional or even larger models over their lifetime.
    “We believe this kind of data is important in a consumer’s selection of transportation,” says Spinella. “Basing purchase decisions solely on fuel economy or vehicle size does not get to the heart of the energy usage issue.”
    The goal of overall worldwide energy conservation and the cost to society in general — not just the auto buyer — can often be better addressed by being aware of a car or truck’s “dust to dust” energy requirements, he said.
    This study is not the end of the energy-usage discussion. “We hope to see a dialog begin that puts educated and aware consumers into energy policy decisions,” Spinella said. “We undertook this research to see if perceptions (about energy efficiency) were true in the real world.”

  37. In Case Remy Needs a Little Lift says:

    For Remy-the-Horseman,

    Since a lotta badnews about hybrid cars has come down the pike,
    we just thought this might be right up your allee’

  38. A better way of thinking.(?)

    When a human wishes to understand everything, the cosmic “All”, what is the measuring stick?
    If our observable universe is just a tiny bubble, in a vast sea of soapsuds (as string theory suggests),
    then the belief in simply observing things (scientism) is restricted to a single bubble only.
    So, as per the dictates of science itself, science is crippled in going further, by simply looking.
    We will never gather the data for elsewhere, so our science has now tied itself in a pretzel,
    and admitted defeat, by believing in its own methods as the supreme methods.

    Before science, or academe, or even language per se, was another conceptual frame available
    to homo sapiens? (There must have been, or else we would all still be loping the African savannas,
    eating fresh bananas.) Being social, humans invest a lot of mental machinery into social thinking.
    (Alligators don’t, orangutans don’t, most pack primates do ).
    Biologically speaking, you use what you got, to do what you gotta do.

    Utilizing the largest and most developed capacities in its available biological brain,
    early homo sapiens used its “I-Thou” mental regions to understand what it could,
    about the world. The “I” involved, was of course each individual thinker,
    and the “Thou” involved, was whatever large, complicated problem presented itself
    for solution to the thinker.

    Hunted animals were thought of as spirits, to be apologized to for being killed
    (Inuit hunters still pray to their kills, even to this day). The weather was seen as a personality,
    as were the sun, moon, stars, forest, fire, and just about everything encountered.

    Far from being a crippling mistake, as present day scientism proponents claim,
    it was actually the concept frame that created civilization as we know it, and all
    in all its not too shabby an accomplishment, for a way of thinking now castigated
    as erronious, primitive, off-target, disprovable, wrong on facts, and wrong in
    conclusions. How wrong could it have been, to have resulted in ancient Rome,
    ancient Egypt, medieval & modern Europe, China, Japan, India, Angkor,
    the Islamic empires, the Inca , Maya, & Aztec empires to boot?

    I claim science, and its cult, scientism, encompass but a tiny slice of truth
    embedded in a huge mountain of truth accrued by the deist societies which
    gave it birth. I claim its tiny conquered territory is insufficient to sustain humanity.

    I claim that the deductive capacity of the human brain is dwarfed by its inductive capacity,
    and that, on the big issues, science has failed utterly, leading the world down such
    avenues of misery as Communism and Nazism, theoretic societies based on
    “scientific principles”. What failed where? No “I-Thou” invocation.
    If one encounters the outer world as a “Thou” (another persona)
    equality of the other, is built into the frame.
    If one encounters the outer world as “It” (a thing)
    no equality is set up…… the thinker may proceed at will.
    And so he does, setting up Gulags, Auschwitz’s, killing fields…
    all in scientific correctness. You can kill ’em, because they ain’t human.
    More than that, you can cut down forests, gouge out mountains,
    and befoul oceans with impunity— because they’re just “things”.

    And yet, even while decrying their own personal desolation, depression, and lack of any solutions
    for a contentious and dangerous modern world, many fooled into false hopes for deductive
    scientism as the “greatest method for Man” , continue to shout down proposals
    to humanize our thinking, utilize our extremely capable social brain,
    and its “I-Thou” conceptual frame, by placing the human animal center stage,
    and then seeing what we can see from here.

    There’s an innate sentience which arises in the physical universe.
    We are part of that process.
    We have evolved into sentience, and will continue to evolve.
    We are more aware of past and future than those we evolved from.
    We are more connected worldwide, than those we evolved from.
    Any species evolving out of us will be more aware of past and future,
    than current human beings are.
    Any species evolving out of us will be more connected , worldwide,
    than current human beings are.
    Evolution is not continuous, but makes leaps, displaying
    “punctuated stability”. The “Punctuation Leaps” are triggered
    by isolation, scarcity, disaster, dieoffs, selection, and adaptation.
    To date, mankind has proven to be a most adaptible species,
    radiating to every region of the planet, its hydro, litho, & pneumosheres,
    and its near space orbital region.
    Mankind is not expected to lose this adaptational genius.
    The habitation of a new sentience will be possible to those who:
    1) believe in it
    2) seek and encourage it (/are allowed to)
    3) are forced into it by scarcity, disaster, and/or dieoffs
    4) possess a cultural frame, in which to embed it
    5) possess a tool, with which to adapt into it

    Current academic disciplines do not believe in it, encourage it,
    do not possess a viable philosophical frame for it, or tool for its adaptation.
    Since new information paths would challenge academia’s feeding troughs,
    academic nullification of its expression can be expected.

    Therefore its arisal may be expected more in marginal communities,
    where its benefit will be welcomed, its down side no hurdle.

    That said, the anthopomorphizing part of the human mind is its greatest and most fruitful part.
    Looking within for new concepts is being the smartest we can be.
    Skeptically gathering data in a little cramped notebook, is not thinking at all.
    At this time, most of the human race can contact most of the rest of the human race,
    in real time, to compare notes. That’s what’s happening right here, on Lohud.
    Pulling the wool over peoples’ eyes is getting harder & harder.
    From now on , for responsible officials vested with public trust to scam, skim,
    promote relatives, and discriminate, is going to become real hard.
    “Business as usual” is going into crisis mode, and I predict, will never come
    back out of crisis mode. Temperature in the kitchen is rising.
    The cookpot’s about to boil. The advancing consensus of human opinion is taking shape
    as a new world court, a new world exchange. When will it be soup?
    What flavor of soup will it be?

    OK, even if it’s too limited to take society forward reliably,
    science has given us some great information to work with, right?

    Actually, yes.
    The widest , most all-encompassing concepts it has given us are two.
    1) Everything is energy.
    2) Everything is changing (into something)
    #1) can be summed up in E=MC^2.
    #2) can be summed up as “evolution”.

    For once, let’s not waste time debating if these 2 notions are true. Let’s accept them as true.
    If they are, we can stop posing as “fighters for truth” in their defense, or as opponents,
    and just see where they take us, as humans.

    If everything is energy, then I’m part of that energy.
    If everything has always been evolving,
    then it came from some real early (different) configuration,
    is passing through the present configuration,
    and will definitely end up in some much, much later (different) configuration.
    If I contain part of the early configuration, as part of me, or as a blueprint for me,
    and if I contain any part of the much later configuration, as part of me,
    or as a blueprint for the much later configuration,
    then I am caught up in a process much larger than me.
    (Me , is not just me).

    Aloneness, is therefore a mental illusion.
    Individuality is just a legalistic illusion.
    (looking at a single frame of a movie, is not watching the movie).

    I posted earlier, that a bear is not the whole living entity.
    Life is the exchange of food, water, etc.from its environment by an individual,
    a being blueprinted by its parents, and siring its own blueprinted offspring,
    so that to see the REAL animal, you must envision the parents,
    all the berries and honey the bear is ever gonna eat, all the animals
    its ever gonna kill & eat, all the shit it ever deposits on its bearshitpile,
    all the air it ever breathes in and CO2 it ever breathes out, and that of all its parents,
    and all its offspring, as far forward & back as you can get any data.
    THAT is the true living being.
    Not the bear.

    This causes such agonies for the ACLU, you can’t imagine.
    A big part of society’s disputes of late, center on increasing everyone’s individuality,
    to the maximum feasible under the law, and to the maximum possible
    under psychological conditioning, via education, advocacy, or therapeutic treatments.

    Suppose, just suppose, as a “let’s separate some apples from some oranges” exercise,
    that ACLU, the educators, psychologists, and advocates are caught up in fighting
    the last century’s battles, and that evolution, working on humanity,
    is dragging everyone in a different direction entirely.

    If we are evolving, and part of a big changing whole, worrying overly much about rights fights,
    and thinking that society needs to be dismantled, for progress to happen,
    is actually stupid, self-centered destruction, out of ignorance of the larger picture.

    I’m not saying don’t engage society’s failings.
    I’m saying that a Tsunami of change, not based on progressivist wishes,
    is already roaring at us from an unsuspected part of the evolution ocean,
    and that all of it is already blueprinted in everybody, whether they want it to be or not,
    and that it’s gonna take everyone to a new configuration no matter what anybody thinks or says.

    So, considering reality to be capable of sentience
    is a long proven method of setting up the homo sapiens worldview,
    and is not “wrong”.

    In fact, setting up what claims to be a “true” worldview
    without making external reality at least an equal,
    is very, very wrong.
    Look at the logic.:

    You are part of the universe.
    Yet you say you are worth more than it is.
    You say you are a person,
    and it is just a thing.
    That’s cosmic lawyer’s talk!
    If you’re part of it, then you’re just like it is.
    If you’re just like it is,
    then it is just like you are.
    If you are different in kind, from what you’re made out of…
    then you’re imposing a miracle, to have made it happen.
    If you admit you are just like it, and no miracle happened,
    then you have to admit that it’s just like you.

    And voila’… in these short sentences,
    I’ve hoisted each & every unthinking scientism cultist
    on their own petard.

    To explain the sentience of humans, without inserting a miracle,
    one must admit the natural universe is capable of sentience.

    Having won, hands down,
    I’m gonna eat lunch, and await the final humiliation
    and reprogramming of all the skeptical secularist heel-nippers
    at a slightly later date’n’time.

    So, Starre…
    Is showing up at a bar, and consuming organically-grown fermentation products in synch with other “creative in-crowders”, thus reducing your composite IQ, and 4-D sentience (due to mild-to-midrange alcohol poisoning)
    truly “the wave of the future”?

    Is gadding about in Cerium-Lanthanum poisonmobiles with softcore bimboes courtesy of the crass anti-female Toyota corporation, truly a “green” activity?
    Question: was gasoline burned in the trip?
    (Answer: Yes, indeedy.).

    As Mr. Ouspensky reminds us, all concerted (organized) activity has the quality of constantly turning, so that in the end, it is working exactly opposite of its original intentions, while ironically keeping the same name.
    Is getting drunk in a series of self indulgent parties helping Gaia?

    Is driving Cerium poisonpots to LA helping Gaia?

    Is eating Vegan garbage out of Loisaida dumpsters really helping Gaia?

    Is wearing second-hand clothes on your air trip to Asia, really helping Gaia (seeing as your Airbus spewed 3500 tons of dioxin-laden partially burned jet fuel on your Earth Mother , just to get you there)?

    Are the conscious worshipers of Gaia, over in Buchanan,
    actually helping her, in the way she wishes, by tending her gifted fires of spontaneous Terran heat?

    You are right Starre
    (oh by the way, say hello to Brian for me)
    Nuclear power is not the wave of the future

    It is the eternal wave of Gaia’s own gifting,
    the fire of her own body.
    Purest of pure.
    Cleanest, most beautiful, and sinless.

    The wave of eternity.

    See ya soon…..

    Harry Springer

  39. Hi Kids!

    Your greenrave party round is an interesting concept,
    imparting some redeeming purpose to simple party-going, but it can’t
    truly offer anything that society requires.

    (How many of the basic human inventions..housing, clothing, government, commerce, energy production, the use of metals…were thought up at a
    Tiki night, drinking organic hooch?)

    Maybe the use of fire, not many others, I’d warrant.
    There ARE people working on the new wave, though.
    Just so as to bring your group up to speed, so as to not be so medieval in your statements & positions, I offer you this link.

    Remy’s gonna LOVE this new car they show!

    Harry Springer

  40. Socialpyramid says:

    I think Wikipedia is really fascinating, and sure it has its problems and its critics, but in general I think it is a very interesting excercise in democracy. In general, the more heads you get together the better the ideas and final result.

    As far as coal, I am very well aware of the emissions from coal, which also include toxic mercury, which you don’t mention. This is one of the reasons why I also oppose coal, and am dubious of the industry’s claims of “clean coal” of the future. I do not propose coal as an alternative to nuclear, but rather conservation and renewables, as well as natural gas to fill in the holes in time lags.

    Your assertion that the only data from radiation and public health comes from Hiroshima is simply not correct. Look at all the studies coming out of nuclear weapons testing in the Pacific, American Southwest and other countries. Further, it is well established that flight attendants have higher cancer rates than other people, and one of the most talked-about theories for why this is so is because they are exposed to more natural radiation than others, being higher up for much of their lives.

    Peer-reviewed research in CA found, for example, for flight attendants: “Breast cancer incidence was over 30% higher than expected, and melanoma incidence was roughly twice that expected.” for flight attendants

    Links to exposure to radon and lung cancer are very well established, as are links to cancer and death among populations, particularly Native Americans, who have worked in uranium mines or lived or played around them. As far as uranium deposits, yes, there could be a connection :

    “Several counties in northern New Mexico display high rates of mortality from gastric cancer. Significant differences in sex-specific, age-adjusted, average annual stomach cancer mortality rates among whites from 1970-1979 were found between counties with significant deposits of uranium compared to those without significant deposits.”

    Clearly, precaution and a reasonable thinking person would suggest that if radiation is so widely linked to adverse biological effects, it would be prudent to avoid radiation as much as possible. Have you met a doctor today who suggests NOT avoiding too much sunshine, because of the power of the rays? Just because radiation is also natural doesn’t invalidate risks from nuclear power. That’s like saying just because mercury or cyanide or arsenic are also in many rocks doesn’t mean we should attempt to avoid and lessen our exposure.

    Your comment “Would you cut off fellow citizens from help in wartime?” is bizarre. Part of protecting our citizens is reducing their exposure to risk, including of terrorist attacks. Solar panels and windmills make less dangerous terrorist targets, period. That makes everyone more safe. In wartime, we should recognize ways to prevent loss, not just try to think of ways to pay for it when it does happen.

  41. Greenmind says:

    To Mr. social polygon…..

    Anyone needing an encyclopedia–defacto has little or no knowlege of the subject sought, and no familiarity with any academic or technical works on the subject.Therefore one must rely on the professional knowlege and neutrality of the committee commissioning each article, to not be misled, or assertion confused with fact, or that politics be deemed science. In Brittannica this trust is well placed. In Wikipedia, no professional standards exist of this nature. So Wikipedia is handy, it’s innocent-looking, and a great mind-trap, ensnaring the unread into believing the bias of the article writer is the ultimate, definitive, established fact. Once written, skewed “opinions-as-facts” on the Wiki become sacrosanct, as if the first jerk to write the stub article gets to add the bias, and any attempts at correction are termed “vandalization” .When technical matter is discussed, are more heads really better? Only if fully informed, professionally neutral, and not carrying hidden personal agendae. Adding a bunch of anxious wannabes to any “board of experts” is a great opening for pseudo-knowlege, bias, and angry, frustrated square-earth theorists. The Wiki has far too much of this. My advice-?—take a college course, and a subsequent connected internship in industry, or use Brittannica.
    You “oppose coal”? That’s pretty bizarre. Tell me, do you propose a “great die-off” of the approximately 4 billion souls whose existence depends entirely on infrastructures created and supported by petroleum/coal/steam/electric power ? Yes mankind can subsist at a certain level abstaining from central energy generation, automobile use, air travel, and petroleum-enhanced agriculture, but at what numbers? Will the deaths be voluntary, let’s say a new activist movement promising to do away with themselves for Gaia? Or shall you choose who is to go first, in the manner of Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, and Atilla? Mankind, like bees, coral reefs, ants, prairie dogs, and a host of other species, is a symbiote, living in synch with, and dependent on, both nesting arrangements (hives, reefs, dens) and other critters (aphids, beef cattle, etc.) in an archtypal symbiote culture. Critter & Culture are inextricable. Remove the hive, and the bees die. Similarly, remove mankind’s culture of technology & infrastructure, and Homo Sapiens ends. So by “opposing coal” you inadvertently propose a return to Homo Habilis (low tech acculturized) and the death of Sapiens (hightech acculturized). Of course you, in the manner of every myopic self appointed Kultur Kommissariat, omit the details, and just “Oppose Coal”. That is how killing fields arise, from just such omissions. Omission of detail, in this case, is a crime against humanity, and you, sir, appear to be guilty.
    All epidemiological data, specifically that used by the Health Physics industry, is based on the single available large sample cohort, that created by bomb victim exposure. That cohort, from Hiroshima & Nagasaki, is still not large enough for extrapolation , they are not broad enogh in their distribution as to place, manner of exposure , etc. Yes, a few others, Pacific Atoll plaintiffs seeking reparations, and a scattering of unagendized victims exist, but no science can be made out of their anecdotes. All data now used is interpolated downward from people having suffered massive acute radiation, in all spectra,within a fraction of a second. Those data are not viable for predicting low dose effects, which stimulate and allow cell repair, and thus adaptation .
    Now the “science”. Being protective in intent, Health Physics must choose its “truth” based not on the theory most likely to be true, but thinking legalistically, must base its “knowlege” on assuming the worst. That way you get less truth, but more redundant protection. You get protective overkill. I’m actually alright with that, as long as agendists don’t omit the details, and base other new extrapolations on the H.P. assumptions.
    The linear-no-threshold assumption is not proven. It is merely administratively assumed. Because life arose in a bath of radiation, and lives only because of ambient radiation input,… radiation is not alien to flora or fauna, but is involved in the root Darwinian selection leading to their present forms. Adaptation is the mechanism by which species include Darwinian stimuli-such as radiation- into their evolutionary emergence. Radiation is good. (would you give up heat—sunlight)? More than that, it is essential to the Darwinian/Gaian scheme. You cannot select which physical phenomena you “like” and which you “dislike”. That is a puerile narcissism , the thinking of a petulant child, and moreover, is the thinking which leads to monstrosities, like “Nazi Science” or “Socialist Science” which are not science at all, but excuses for the extermination of people. So be real careful, when you “oppose radiation”. You don’t have that option. Imagining you do, is a dementia. My advice— rethink some things, and stop imagining you are in charge of the future. You are not.
    Providing protection for people?
    Protection fom 21st century civilization, itself , do you mean?
    In the entire 360 degree range of physical phenomena, from weather, vulcanism, sunlight, fire, metals and other active minerals, and in the entire 360 degree range of cultural avocations such as animal husbandry (large dangerous, dirty beasts), sailing on oceans in which you may drown, flying in planes which might fall, cars which may crash, elevators which may fall, with people who may give you aids, or anthrax, or avian flu, or even your entertainment, bone-breaking sports, thrill seeking, etc., risks are everywhere. You blind yourself to those you’ve not been agendized to, and you overcompensate for not knowing which fear is a correct fear, by projecting ALL fears, ALL risks, on to your cultic scapegoat item. In your case it’s nuclear power. In other cases, it’s other fetishes, like Shiites, maybe, or Hutus, or Gays, but in each case, it’s a delusion.
    Once deluded, you limit your intake of reality, to those comforting items which allow you to go on deluding in that way, smug, self-aggrandizing, demonizing others, & other things, never really growing at all, always reducing options, until you finally find yourself incapable of meeting most other people. You need to talk only to others holding similar delusions. It is nothing more than basic cultism 101. Nowadays it can pass itself off as “activism” but in true fact it is fetish worship, and cultural Bulimia. Haven’t you noticed how bad it’s making you feel? The reason is NOT a lousy planet. The reason IS, in fact, a lousy outlook, which is clinically called an obsession.
    All your pseudofactual “discussion” is lame nonsense, because YOU want the Earth to not have coal, and to not have self-heating minerals. I’m gonna do you a favor. I’m gonna stop the world right here, so you can get off. Those marginally surviving 4 billion folks do NOT want to die for you, or for your preferences.
    Tell me…. where IS your planet?
    It certainly is not this one, the one that has coal, oil, and hot minerals, and 4 billion marginal survivors, alive today, only by means of their use.

  42. Socialpyramid says:

    By the way, my last post was directd at Harry Springer.

  43. Greenmind says:

    I see you are one of the growing host of Harry Springer fans. Well, if you have placed your post out there, for others to read, it becomes a public post, whatever you intended.

    Whatever Springer says, the fact is that a huge population of people, mainly in the third world depend on the kind of central generation permitted by nuclear power plants.

    Why would Starre even choose the thread title she did, if that fact were not becoming clearer each day? If nuclear power is not the wave of the future, there may be no future for billions of helpless, dependent thirdworlders un-familiarized for decades with the former tribal lifeways, which are now lost.

    Its gone far beyond any “Environmentalism” considerations, you are headed full speed toward a huge human catastrophe, if power is not provided for our 6 billion now, 12 billion soon, and 30 billion in 100 years.

    Only the nukes can do the job.
    (and they make no smoke)

  44. Fascinating… I posted here a couple of days ago, updates to and poof, my whole post is gone!!! I can’t remember what I wrote. Just logon to the site, quite a lot of new stuff there.

  45. Greenmind says:

    Biomimetics, Gaiamimetics, and IPEC

    Remy C, the reason your posts disappear,
    is that Gaia is angry with you.
    Fighting the natural intentions of your mother planet
    is never a good thing, and always results in emptiness.

    This planet, called Earth, or Terra, which has awakened as the living being known as Gaia
    has assembled itself over eons , eons in which examples were layed down for the wise
    to ponder and learn from. What better way to solve some modern day problem, than to
    observe what the planet or its life forms has done in the past, under similar circumstances.

    This outlook might be termed biomimetics, or Gaiamimetics, and its lessons ought to help
    avoid plans or agendae too uninformed, too unconnected to Gaian reality to succeed.

    One incident that happened spontaneously 2 billion years ago, was the formation
    of the mats of Oklo. Bacterial beings, the earliest known life forms, have formed
    mats or nodules around the globe, similar to coral reefs, as both their living homes,
    and as the historical record of their having existed. In Australia, the nodules of their
    habitations still exist,in coastal waters, and are known as stromatolites.

    At Oklo, in Gabon, Africa, similar creatures have left not only mats, but a mineralized
    historical record of the most surprising kind, a record only decipherable recently,
    using physical knowlege not available until late in the twentieth century.

    At Oklo, a deposit of heavy minerals existed in a wet environment, perhaps a stream.
    For 12 billion years or so, nothing notable occurred, until micro-organisms occupied
    the inner spaces between grains of this mineral deposit, using it as their home,
    but also inadvertently acting as a living moderator for certain chemical reactions
    now enabled to occur within the mineral itself.

    On a steady basis, interludes of wetting, drying, growing, and changing occurred,
    completely altering the raw minerals, to suit the needs of the stromatolite population
    living within the grains, and leaving (as in Australia) , a permanent record of
    their having lived. Microbiotic symbiosis between bacteria and an inorganic chemical reaction had created the special conditions required to permanently alter the mineral, and thus write the record
    of the Oklo mats, in stone, or rather, in metal.

    The stone, a uraninite oxide, now contains an imbalance of its U238 and U235 metals which is easily recognizable to scientists, as the result of a biological nuclear reactor. The depletion in
    its 235 species of metal can’t be attributed to any other cause, and could not have happened any other way. The Oklo bacteria created their own living Indian Point.

    Without the bacteria –unmoderated– the reaction could not have occurred
    (and did not for 12 billion years before they arrived).
    Without the warmth of the reactor surrounding them, the bacteria could not have flourished
    as they did, for an estimated billion years, living high on the hog in their self-heating
    apartment house, their own self-warming coral reef in a river in Africa,
    a successful nuclearbiotic symbiosis of the first magnitude, teaching us how
    to use what Gaia provides– the spontaneous warmth of her own body,
    contained in her own mineral gift, used locally, in full biomimetic respectfulness,
    and Gaiamimetic gratitude, only at the Indian Point Energy Center,
    our own biomimetic triumph on the Hudson.

    Far from being an interloper, invading a pristine shore, IPEC is seen in this light
    to be an environmental savior, using its biomimetics to gather Gaia’s gift,
    her self warming mineral deposits, cleanly, silently, and naturally,
    to warm & sustain us like the bacteria at Oklo,
    rather than burning up the dwindling atmosphere as other power plants,
    on coal, oil, or gas, will surely do.

  46. Thanks for the graduate degree course in evolutionary geology. I bet you sleep with a chunk of uranium under your pillow at night, like Lex Luthor. While I, Green Superman, am vulnerable to kryptonite. We all have our weakness.

  47. Rem,

    We have never met,
    I’ve only ever seen some silly pictures of you,
    at a bar somewhere, but I just can’t help liking you.
    You enjoy life.
    We all, each & every one of us, sleep, as you say,
    with a chunk of uranium beneath us.

    That chunk is known as “Terra” or “Earth” or, if you will, “Gaia”.
    We also sleep with a chunk of hot volcanic lava beneath us….. Gaia again.
    Would you plunge your hand into the lava?…. Of course not.
    Would you lovingly embrace a uranium bedpillow?…. I think not.

    Both of those powerful Gaian outpourings are GIFTS!!
    Gaia gives, and we are allowed to accept, and use, or die out
    and become mere food for whatever creature accepts the gifts.
    (Gaia’s first Law).

    Neither volcanoes nor uranium are evil,
    they are both natural, even supernatural, gifts.
    The greenest gifts ever given our humble monkeyrace.
    We ought to use them.
    Hope to meet you someday, Rem,
    and hoist a brandy (organic of course)
    to our momma,
    Goddess Gaia!

    Now, to the Protection of Mother Earth’s Daughters!

    6000 Chinese coal miners die on average each year,
    mining the coal used to create the permanent east Asian atmospheric disturbance
    which has been visible from outer space for the last decade,
    the brown death-smog which now grows increasingly worse each year.
    Not only do the massive mining operations mar the breast of mother earth,
    causing acid runoffs into streams, killing fish, deforesting
    entire provinces with irreparable open scars,
    but the impoverishment & lung disease following stunt the lives of millions,
    to place the sleeping giant, China, at the forefront of the fossil burning nations.

    The single technology most protective of mother earth,
    of the miners, of the atmosphere, of the steams, their fish, their trees,
    and all the poor people dependent on them,
    is the gift of the Earth itself, giving heat without burning anything,
    vastly reducing mining operations by a thousand,
    or ten thousand orders of magnitude for the same power (thus saving 6000 lives directly),
    the minerals used by bacteria ages ago, and used today in the biomimetic triumph on the Hudson, Indian Point.

    Closing Indian Point would necessitate the burning of oil, or coal in the USA, on the same scale as in China,
    shooting us backwards 200 years in one fell swoop, back to the age of “Black Birmingham”, when 100,000
    people per year would die of lung disease in England, from the soot clouds of Birmingham’s factories.

    Mother Earth has given us a way out. Are we to deny its existence out of malicious self pride?
    Gaia’s self warming minerals are here whether we use them or not. You don’t burn them.
    You need not even mine any more of them (simply use what we already possess).
    Simply acknowlege the purity, the pristine invisibility of the Indian Point process,
    which makes no smoke, buries its own waste in its own casks, emits no greenhouse gas,
    and asks only to be allowed to continue to protect our mother earth with her own gift.

    This is the moral fact of it.
    This is the one ethical solution to it.
    This is the scientific reality of it.
    Any denial of this, is malicious self promotion,
    based on malicious misinformation,
    and is, in fact, the knowing promotion of intentional death.


  48. So what exactly are your opinions on solar/hydro/geothermal/wind Greenmind/Harry Springer? You keep making statements that it’s either nuclear power or “spew more fossil fuel waste into the atmosphere.” I would say there are quite a few options other than that…do you discount them wholly?

    And as far as having 30 billion people on the planet, I am sure it won’t get to that. As soon as women have control over their own bodies, they can choose to have 1-2 children, or none (my preference). Most women do not want to be incubators for half their lives, but are destined to a life of such fecundity due to lack of family planning available. Yes, most women want to have children, no, most of them don’t want 6 of them.

  49. Greenmind says:

    Keep it coming with all the techno marvels… we need them all.

    Keep it coming likewise with all the female-led relationships.
    That paradigm can save us all in the end.

    The newly non-tribal cannot see what you see, and what I see.
    They retain the procreate-at-all-cost mandate of old,
    and now have cheap air fare to everywhere.
    (Look at poor liberal Holland!)

    30 billion Starre, sorry.

    Pardon, must leave now, to worship my Home-Goddess
    (no uranium in this house though,.. ever).


  50. Link to:

    I just thought I’d share with Ecochic(k),
    the size of the phenomenon we all speak of so blithely.
    View these existing Powerplants, ….most of ’em
    in the damndest backward third world locales,
    where they represent the best thing these places have ever seen.

    Are we gonna tear ’em all down?
    How? Answer is, we can’t. It’s there, and its gonna stay there.
    Without these nasty smoking stinkholes, millions go without
    medical facilities, transport, food, air conditioning, and communications.
    Many, many more of them are on the way.
    What kind shall they be ? ? ? ?
    Yes, Hydro & wind are fine.
    But only Gaia’s nukes can raise the Human Race
    to where it must go…….a whole world alight
    with freedom & power, no smoke,
    no stink, silent wonder at the Gaian Plan.
    The Earth itself invented the method
    at Oklo, Gabon, 2 billion years ago.
    We should gracefully, and gratefully, accept the gift.

  51. Here are 2 videos that I shot at the implosion of the cooling tower of the Trojan Nuclear Plant in May 2006. (Best to turn up your speakers.)

    26-second video of tower implosion

    10-minute video on weekend of implosion

  52. So…like wow…eco-chick…like, groovy….yah know……no nukes…right on….let’s eat some sprouts and tree bark and split wood, not atoms and raise our consciousness levels (how TRITE baby)….uh…er….hey wait a minute….like totatally far out baby….aren’t we suppossed to be TREE HUGGERS?……cutting up Gaia’s beautiful trees and throwing them into wood stoves, churning out tons and tons of carbon, CO2, carbon monoxide, soot, filth and such into the air, causing a further increase in global warming, breathing in all that air pollution……how’s that for a scenario, you ultra-lefto, anti-technology, anti-science earthy-crunchy-bandana-wearing cosmic wimpout playing like wow groovy hippie dippy MORONS?……here, eat some more “shrooms” man and like wow, who needs technology man….

  53. Do you support the use of nuclear power? Here is a poll that just started. Anyone can vote on it.

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  55. Although all of these symptoms may be experienced by all women, the name CFS is applied when the situation appears in a previously healthy woman. CFS or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a sickness characterized by continuous medically unexplained fatigue.
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  56. Although all of these symptoms may be experienced by all women, the name CFS is applied when the situation appears in a previously healthy woman. Understand that
    healing the adrenals, or balancing any hormones, can take time; it is not a quick fix.
    That’s simply a band-aid approach and resolves little if anything, and it definitely doesn’t cure the problem.

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