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	<title>Comments on: Animals In Medical Research?</title>
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	<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/</link>
	<description>Because Mother Earth Is A Woman</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DeeAnne</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-520618</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-520618</guid>
		<description>Just because animals can't prevent us from imposing suffering or discourse with us on the 'moral implications' of those actions doesn't mean that it's okay for us to do it. In my opinion, you're not using your so-called moral superiority very well if you're using it to justify animal testing in this manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because animals can&#8217;t prevent us from imposing suffering or discourse with us on the &#8216;moral implications&#8217; of those actions doesn&#8217;t mean that it&#8217;s okay for us to do it. In my opinion, you&#8217;re not using your so-called moral superiority very well if you&#8217;re using it to justify animal testing in this manner.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Harrington</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-67976</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Harrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 20:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-67976</guid>
		<description>Animal research has helped progress medicine and saved both human and animal lives. It has also helped identify dangerous substances which have then been controlled or banned. We might not like the idea of experimenting on animals but it has helped the people and the planet as a whole. I look forward to alternatives being develelped. 
We need a balanced approach and a free debate - that is one free of death threats against scientists and those who support animal experiments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Animal research has helped progress medicine and saved both human and animal lives. It has also helped identify dangerous substances which have then been controlled or banned. We might not like the idea of experimenting on animals but it has helped the people and the planet as a whole. I look forward to alternatives being develelped.<br />
We need a balanced approach and a free debate - that is one free of death threats against scientists and those who support animal experiments.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-18948</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-18948</guid>
		<description>And what do you think of animal testing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what do you think of animal testing?</p>
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		<title>By: Starre</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-18744</link>
		<dc:creator>Starre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-18744</guid>
		<description>I've often wondered whether we 'use' dogs and cats as pets. A perfect example is that last night one of my indoor cats escaped outside, and I had a hell of a time catching him. Am I really keeping him in a house-sized cage? Probably, but my justification is that there is a busy street nearby that will surely kill him if he runs into it. 

I think that with animals that are domesticated, especially cats and dogs, who have been trained and used by us for thousands of years (and became pets after they became useful to us in other ways), we do have an obligation to house and feed, since in a very real way, humans 'created' the versions of the animal (that is, domesticated) that they are now. I am opposed to breeding animals to become pets, because to me, that is the same as 'using' them for the way that they look, or for certain behavioral traits. Plus it's just shameful that you'd pay to produce a dog when there are so many that would just about kill themselves for a good home. 

Also, I have personal experience with dogs and cats since I was a kid, and maybe this is just because I'm hopelessly anthropocentric, but I think my cats and my dog really do love me, and not just because I feed them. (Disclaimer: there is a very warm and fuzzy grey cat in my lap licking my arm as I write this!) 

I am also oppsed to 'exotic' pets, since I see that they are 'used' in the same way that bred animals are. They don't belong in a cage in your house, or even freely able to run around, they belong in their natural habitat. So when Paris Hilton gets bitten by her kinkajou, I think that she deserves it! 

But I also think there is an idea put forth by Michael Pollan in Botany of Desire...he writes about plants, but I think the idea has possible context for animals too. His theory is that while we are busy 'using' an animal, they are just as much 'using' us, that it is all an evolutionary two-way street. My cat gives me warmth, purring, kisses, (and often a diva-sized attitude) and I give her really good food, a warm and dry home, treats, and health care. Not a bad deal for the cat, and in the past, that connection with human beings meant their offspring would be more likely to survive. Now cats are SO successful that wherever you go, there are too many of them! An evolutionary success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve often wondered whether we &#8216;use&#8217; dogs and cats as pets. A perfect example is that last night one of my indoor cats escaped outside, and I had a hell of a time catching him. Am I really keeping him in a house-sized cage? Probably, but my justification is that there is a busy street nearby that will surely kill him if he runs into it. </p>
<p>I think that with animals that are domesticated, especially cats and dogs, who have been trained and used by us for thousands of years (and became pets after they became useful to us in other ways), we do have an obligation to house and feed, since in a very real way, humans &#8216;created&#8217; the versions of the animal (that is, domesticated) that they are now. I am opposed to breeding animals to become pets, because to me, that is the same as &#8216;using&#8217; them for the way that they look, or for certain behavioral traits. Plus it&#8217;s just shameful that you&#8217;d pay to produce a dog when there are so many that would just about kill themselves for a good home. </p>
<p>Also, I have personal experience with dogs and cats since I was a kid, and maybe this is just because I&#8217;m hopelessly anthropocentric, but I think my cats and my dog really do love me, and not just because I feed them. (Disclaimer: there is a very warm and fuzzy grey cat in my lap licking my arm as I write this!) </p>
<p>I am also oppsed to &#8216;exotic&#8217; pets, since I see that they are &#8216;used&#8217; in the same way that bred animals are. They don&#8217;t belong in a cage in your house, or even freely able to run around, they belong in their natural habitat. So when Paris Hilton gets bitten by her kinkajou, I think that she deserves it! </p>
<p>But I also think there is an idea put forth by Michael Pollan in Botany of Desire&#8230;he writes about plants, but I think the idea has possible context for animals too. His theory is that while we are busy &#8216;using&#8217; an animal, they are just as much &#8216;using&#8217; us, that it is all an evolutionary two-way street. My cat gives me warmth, purring, kisses, (and often a diva-sized attitude) and I give her really good food, a warm and dry home, treats, and health care. Not a bad deal for the cat, and in the past, that connection with human beings meant their offspring would be more likely to survive. Now cats are SO successful that wherever you go, there are too many of them! An evolutionary success.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-18735</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 15:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-18735</guid>
		<description>Indeed, you could say that. Of course, rescuing animals could be perceived a bit differently although could still be deemed self serving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, you could say that. Of course, rescuing animals could be perceived a bit differently although could still be deemed self serving.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-18732</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 15:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-18732</guid>
		<description>Interesting to discuss animal "use". What about the way pet owners "use" their pets? Isn't the breeding of animals for comapnionship and "love" also utilitarian?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to discuss animal &#8220;use&#8221;. What about the way pet owners &#8220;use&#8221; their pets? Isn&#8217;t the breeding of animals for comapnionship and &#8220;love&#8221; also utilitarian?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://eco-chick.com/2006/09/26/animals-in-medical-research/#comment-18523</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-chick.com/?p=524#comment-18523</guid>
		<description>Attempting to gauge the validity or moral positioning of animal rights and their use in medical research places the argument in abstract anthropomorpic terms. To try to ask questions of animal 'rights' based on cognitive capabilities, deductive or syllogistic reasoning, or moral capacity, is classically anthropocentric and fails to see "the world as it is" beyond human structuring, posturing, and ethics.

While it is a fascinating discussion, I feel your use of antiquated philosophers who are stymied by the limited constructs of codified "logos" and reason, fails to grasp important pitfalls of such structuralized thought. The presumption, by logicians and the like, is that meaning is necessarily fixed and dogmatic. This philosopical premise, following post-structuralism and postmodernism, is no longer tenable or "reasonable."

Read some Foucault, Derrida, Baudrillard, Barthes, and Rorty.

Regardless of all the intellectual banter, my feelings regarding the topic are complex. I envy your simplicity, much as I am grateful to be who I am and see the issue in a different way. Inevitably, regardless of how I may anthrophomorphize animals, there is always necessarily the human construct being placed on the animal world in order to understand or explain.

That being said, to see an animal, shaking in a cage, being injected with needles, being pinned down by all fours, clearly frightened and suffering, is a visceral experience and one that leaves an impact. The experience of being an animal is not one that can be contained by human constructs, only in so far as we are using those constructs to justify our own utilitarian use of animals. Inevitably, humans "use" thousands of living organisms for their survival, from a carrot to a cow hide. For some, paying homage to whatever living being they are "using" is enough. For others, doing everything possible to avoid that death is crucial.

From a 'human' perspective, it is a topic that goes beyond the old rationalization of "well gee, that monkey can't make moral judgments anyway so....."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attempting to gauge the validity or moral positioning of animal rights and their use in medical research places the argument in abstract anthropomorpic terms. To try to ask questions of animal &#8216;rights&#8217; based on cognitive capabilities, deductive or syllogistic reasoning, or moral capacity, is classically anthropocentric and fails to see &#8220;the world as it is&#8221; beyond human structuring, posturing, and ethics.</p>
<p>While it is a fascinating discussion, I feel your use of antiquated philosophers who are stymied by the limited constructs of codified &#8220;logos&#8221; and reason, fails to grasp important pitfalls of such structuralized thought. The presumption, by logicians and the like, is that meaning is necessarily fixed and dogmatic. This philosopical premise, following post-structuralism and postmodernism, is no longer tenable or &#8220;reasonable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Read some Foucault, Derrida, Baudrillard, Barthes, and Rorty.</p>
<p>Regardless of all the intellectual banter, my feelings regarding the topic are complex. I envy your simplicity, much as I am grateful to be who I am and see the issue in a different way. Inevitably, regardless of how I may anthrophomorphize animals, there is always necessarily the human construct being placed on the animal world in order to understand or explain.</p>
<p>That being said, to see an animal, shaking in a cage, being injected with needles, being pinned down by all fours, clearly frightened and suffering, is a visceral experience and one that leaves an impact. The experience of being an animal is not one that can be contained by human constructs, only in so far as we are using those constructs to justify our own utilitarian use of animals. Inevitably, humans &#8220;use&#8221; thousands of living organisms for their survival, from a carrot to a cow hide. For some, paying homage to whatever living being they are &#8220;using&#8221; is enough. For others, doing everything possible to avoid that death is crucial.</p>
<p>From a &#8216;human&#8217; perspective, it is a topic that goes beyond the old rationalization of &#8220;well gee, that monkey can&#8217;t make moral judgments anyway so&#8230;..&#8221;</p>
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